| Asydius | 2010-05-31 09:04:09 |
So I know this has been brought up before, but I find it hard to believe and must bring it up again.
When playing in classic, it appears that the two decks are never, ever, ever, never, ever (did I make that clear that I think its a never thing?) equal. Over a year ago when I played this game somewhat regularly, I had the same view. Now that I have come back to the game, I still have this view.
Why you may wonder?
Well... one player (not always my opponent, sometimes me) will have a deck that has card draw, mana production, mana reduction, life gain, direct damage spells, creature kill, creature control, and creatures. Not bad.
The other player will have a large number of small creatures, or a large number of very high casting cost creatures, or maybe even a bit of both.
But the player with the first mentioned deck will, due to his deck makeup, be able to take an early advantage, keep it, and dominate the game. This leaves the player with the latter mentioned deck feeling like he just got screwed over. He then may even wonder why he paid for the game, or why he should pay for the game if he hasn't.
On the off chance that decks appear somewhat similar, one deck will dominate in the way the cards are dealt. As an example:
Player one has the better deck. He starts off with some high damage dealing creatures.
Player two has weak low end creatures he tries to put out to stop the attack(s). He is happy, though, because he sees he has a card draw if he can get to five mana.
Player one then has creature advantage, and moves on to drop an astral guard.
Player two thinks "what the fu.." and realizes his 5 mana card draw is now about useless, unless he can kill the guard. He struggles to find a way to make it happen. He hatches a plan, but it will take two turns.
Player one then drops a larger creature, and has total board control. However, at this point he is low on cards, so it may appear things could equal out if player two can get something going.
Player two is about ready to kill the guard, but needs one more turn. He was lucky to get a healer or hermit, and made a bit of life. He's hoping for the best.
Player one gets topdecked an amnesia, casts it, and then has total board domination, with the guard still in play to prevent spells from the opponent.
Player two says "what the fu.." again and wonders if the decks are ever going to be equal. If he mentions this out loud, player one more than likely tells him he is a noob and sucks and laughs cuz he is winning, thus making the game enjoyment reduced to zero.
Is this fun??
I know you have said before that there are 22,685 random decks (ok, that number is not totally accurate, but if I recall, you did say it was over 20k) and no two games will ever be the same. I say you are smoking something you shouldn't be, because out of 20 games played in a day (just as an example) I can see a recurring theme. Its the theme mentioned above. Therefore, something in your random deck generation is broken.
Thanks for listening.
| Asydius | 2010-06-06 14:55:21 |
Well... out of 32 games played this weekend only 1 was anything even remotely close to what I would call fair or even. All the remaining games were so lopsided and unfair that it made no sense to even play for the losing player, in hindsight. Oh well.. I guess thats as good as it gets.
| Everybody Lies | 2010-06-06 15:43:14 |
My Eng is bad, but I'll try. Bad balance. Early balance been about ok, not perfect but not that... I played that deck 5 minutes ago. 4-5 turns I reduced enemy mana power. The opponent can't do anything. When I has a duel versus that deck I have creatures 7, 8, 6 and above spells at start of duel. With mana reduces I wonder how I can win. There is rich decks with mana reducing, card draw, card production and damage spells, life gain in other deck with similar cards. When you played this decks vs similar you have a chance to win, when you played vs other where has no life gain, no card producing, etc. you have no chance. Also you are have this rich decks sometimes, but is it fun... then you have similar duel on other side of river.
| Peps666 | 2010-06-06 17:14:07 |
CLASSIC DUELS----\m/ !!!!
| Everybody Lies | 2010-06-06 17:41:00 |
Peps, if you have what to say - say it.
| Peps666 | 2010-06-06 17:47:44 |
BALANCE IN CLASSIC = 4+ .........i'm playing FOR FUN ;)
| Everybody Lies | 2010-06-06 18:20:09 |
Early fun been better. I want all cards in classic and make full random. That's be fun.
| Everybody Lies | 2010-06-06 18:23:27 |
Also random can be 5 random cards from fire, 5 from water, etc. every duel. Or make 4th room called Random Duels. If you want leave classic in that condition.
| Peps666 | 2010-06-06 19:06:19 |
may be...........but soon will be AM2 ;)
| Everybody Lies | 2010-06-06 19:14:49 |
I suppose not so soon. And new is not necessarily better than old. I don't play Spectromancer, for example. However we will see.
| +++vul+++ | 2010-06-06 20:28:04 |
I playing AM long time and I think about classic balance and other things lots time. I say You this: In my opinion balance of deck is good. Really good player can win more than 10 times in row. In classic You have no only luck. Luck is about 20% to Your winning (+/- 5%). Rest is strategy. No other bullshit. It's true. Good player know it. 1/5 is luck. 4/5 strategy and twice thinking ;)
| ZVERyAi | 2010-06-07 01:53:10 |
I playing AM long time and I think about classic balance and other things lots time. I say You this: In my opinion balance of deck is good. Really good player can win more than 10 times in row. In classic You have no only luck. Luck is about 20% to Your winning (+/- 5%). Rest is strategy. No other bullshit. It's true. Good player know it. 1/5 is luck. 4/5 strategy and twice thinking ;) Peps666 i Everybody Lies - ne proshe li bilo v RUS teme pogovorit'?)) | Everybody Lies | 2010-06-07 02:18:37 |
Because here are not only russian players.
| Peps666 | 2010-06-07 02:24:04 |
VUL RIGHT.......
| prisoner | 2010-06-07 05:36:05 |
I playing AM long time and I think about classic balance and other things lots time. I say You this: In my opinion balance of deck is good. Really good player can win more than 10 times in row. In classic You have no only luck. Luck is about 20% to Your winning (+/- 5%). Rest is strategy. No other bullshit. It's true. Good player know it. 1/5 is luck. 4/5 strategy and twice thinking ;) well...right you are...Vul, maybe you can write the text about classic duels: tactics, strategy etc...for all...Text like guidance.
ps: sorry for my language...
| +++vul+++ | 2010-06-07 16:54:37 |
Hehe ;) I say that tips & tricks : (only a few because more I have only in my mind ;)
1. Much more decks are a "fast decks" where You charge and play with small mana cards. No big-mana combo. You win more duels when You play like berserker.
2. When You have "lighting strike" no cast it in second turn (or first) when You have 2 MP. Leave it on later turns. This move is more powerfull when You cast it later. (opponent often holding good spell on 5-8 MP)
3. Never sacrifice Mithril Golem. That is one of most powerful card in classic mode ;)
4. When You have Acidic Drake, Storm Drake etc. (massive attack creat.) no put it on first slot ! (As many players do.) It's not the best place to put it. Second slot is the best because maybe You create/summon two Faerie Tactician. And You have bonus + 2dmg. Simple but hard to think up this ;)
5. Merfolk Summoner smells like a shit :] Dumb, bad balanced and hard to good using card in classic. Sure, this card sometimes add % to You wining (always on looong duels and always on grey end) but .... it really smells :P Even as blocking creature is shitty. I no conception with this card. Bleee.
6. When opponent have 7 MP and it is Your turn put always a strong attack creature on table. You always have sure to damage him when he cast solitude. (You must sense this :). Well, if You have memory burn it is a new fairy tale :P
7. If You smoke cigaretes, smoke it still playing AM ;)
8. Never play in classic when You drunk. Shitty effect.
9. Think always twice. No play fast if You not certain Your move. Fast and good playing is real. But You have must some practice in play. Better think a little in play.
10. Be kind and polite - always :)
Sorry for my english. :) and good luck to You all )
| Peps666 | 2010-06-07 17:38:13 |
VUL---WHERE ARE YOU FROM ?! (o_O)
| +++vul+++ | 2010-06-07 17:46:44 |
Hehe Why Peps666 ? Am I writed something bad?
Modified by +++vul+++ on 2010-06-07 17:47:30 | Peps666 | 2010-06-08 13:16:01 |
VUL are you JEW ?!?! if you answered question on question ?!?! )))
| +++vul+++ | 2010-06-08 16:58:32 |
:))) No Im not a Jew. From Poland Peps666, from Poland..
| Peps666 | 2010-06-08 18:28:58 |
and PEPS666 because JUST peps666 and nothing more ) TRUE =)
| +++vul+++ | 2010-06-09 06:34:01 |
]:>~
| Peps666 | 2010-06-09 07:10:20 |
he he =)
| Asydius | 2010-06-13 14:20:01 |
I playing AM long time and I think about classic balance and other things lots time. I say You this: In my opinion balance of deck is good. Really good player can win more than 10 times in row. In classic You have no only luck. Luck is about 20% to Your winning (+/- 5%). Rest is strategy. No other bullshit. It's true. Good player know it. 1/5 is luck. 4/5 strategy and twice thinking ;) Perhaps one day we shall play together and you can explain to me how if one of us has card draw, creatures, direct damage spells, mana gain, mana reduction, life gain, and card reduction spells, while the other player starts with nothing but very easy to kill tiny creatures that cant stay on the board past turn 4 the game is even and fair. I would love someone to explain to me how that is a strategically won or lost game. Anyone playing classic knows it is not. And the players that use the system unfairly to gain levels know that strategy has nothing to do with anything either (not you, I have played you before and you dont do that). I do not see even decks or strategy in classic anywhere.
| Everybody Lies | 2010-06-24 15:45:16 |
Almost right description of today classic duels is rock-paper-scissors with some deflections with strategy, when your success depends on you. Even Vul has 8.2k wins and 7.2k looses, there is not big difference. Modified by Everybody Lies on 2010-06-24 15:50:45 | +++vul+++ | 2010-06-24 19:35:53 |
Im sorry Everybody Lies but over than 1000 wins on plus in classic mode is really, really hard work. It's no simple. Besides I have the bigest lvl in Classic so I no only bubbling... IT IS a big difference in my opinion. If this will be a simple and classic mode will be "rock-paper-scissors" then no only I will have 40 lvl on total and 38 lvl in classic. (five number biger than second player in classic). I have good trick and knowledge how I must play ;) Best regards.
| Everybody Lies | 2010-06-24 20:06:21 |
One question. How long you're playing AM? Modified by Everybody Lies on 2010-06-24 20:06:34 | +++vul+++ | 2010-06-24 21:53:02 |
About 4-5 years. In on-line league about 2-3 years.
| Asydius | 2010-07-13 21:40:25 |
I wonder, do you know what is in your deck by looking at the opening hand. I've heard some players say there is a way to do this. I thought it was impossible.
Also, I once again submit the decks are imbalanced. But Vul disagrees and says it is all strategy. I say if decks are even, strategy is the key. If one player has card control, card draw, mana generation, mana reduction, creatures, creature kill, creature control, and life gain... while the other player has nothing but high priced creatures or very weak low priced creatures, then most times even the idiot can win with the first mentioned deck.
Also, what is up with playing against the computer. The game is predetermined on who will win on the first turn. If the computer is deemed to win, then no matter how I play or what I do the computer gets a card that will defeat everything I have done. If I am predetermined to win, then I can actually play to keep the computer alive for over 20 turns (and I have done this) and still win easily, unless I commit suicide of course. That makes little to no sense, and shows again the imbalance in decks.
| Silent Kill | 2010-09-28 17:48:10 |
Still, I dont understand why some cards are banned?? And for ex. Wrath Of Dorlak which is ruining all strategy is allowed. Would be nice to allow more cards in classic. Modified by Silent Kill on 2010-10-12 17:15:10 | Everybody Lies | 2010-09-28 19:57:50 |
Agree. All cards and full random every duel as a bonus.
| Akragon | 2010-10-07 00:05:46 |
Uhm, what cards are banned in clasic....i've been playin for like 5 years and i've haven't seen any cards that don't come up sooner or later...
Every clasic duel gives you a deck to work with, if you don't know how to use that particular deck or make the wrong choices in the battle you'll lose...simple as that
Although i'll admit sometimes the battles are completely unfair because some of the decks are stacked and others are crap....
What are these banned cards...
| Silent Kill | 2010-10-12 17:40:07 |
Mind Master, Keeper of Nature etc.. I thought that some missing cards are allowed on higher levels (my best lev until now is just 10 so its low) but I asked Vul and he told me sad truth:( On top levels some cards are still unavailable. It should be changed I think:/
| ZVERyAi | 2010-11-03 12:44:29 |
Not good balance in classic duels
| Strix88 | 2013-05-25 18:30:18 |
Balance you said... Ok today I played a duel, when my opponent played several mana burst spells in a row and summoned Archangel, Goblin Witch and one other creature. It was 4th turn and he just started to return and summon his witch every next turn and I couldn't play anything just because had nothing cheaper than 5. What should be done in such situation to say that the game is balanced?
Modified by Strix88 on 2013-05-25 18:31:51 | Van_Der_Lokken | 2013-05-26 09:52:36 |
Balance you said... Ok today I played a duel, when my opponent played several mana burst spells in a row and summoned Archangel, Goblin Witch and one other creature. It was 4th turn and he just started to return and summon his witch every next turn and I couldn't play anything just because had nothing cheaper than 5. What should be done in such situation to say that the game is balanced? There's no balance at all. I've played many games and seen absolutely insane situations. Sometimes at the very beginning you can recieve a set of cards without any level 1 and 2 creatures and any creature killing spells when your enemy has Faerie Oracle (one of the most imbalanced cards in the whole game). That's definitely a lost game. Another time your enemy attempts an early game rush and your deck doesn't contain any suitable cards to prevent it or to do massive damage. Also there're some cards that can ruin almost any strategy: Inquisitor, Amnesia, Memory Burn, Elven King, Merfolk Duplicator, Faerie Tactitian + Siren (using this combination is like cheating :) Early game aggression sometimes helps against these cards but you cannot play aggressively every time. I know some possible tweaks that can improve balance but since the developers stopped making patches long ago I think it's useless to talk about.
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